Earthquake OOC.

[King]

Post your OOC things here (i.e you Exar). Ready to thrash the you OOCly, too.

[Exar Kun]

Pausing the thread for a moment, as I take issue with some of the explanations and actions outlined in Genbu's post. I'm not aware of an OOC thread for this event, so I'm posting this here. I will, of course, delete this once the issues have been resolved.

- - - -

Frankly, I find your explanations and actions in your post, specifically in regards to how you've managed to detect Adrianna, to be more than dubious Genbu, for a several reasons.

1. There is a giant building in-between me and you. To get a in-depth view of where we're all positioned:

Max would be the first to be dropped off, stationed on the building directly to the hospital's left. Meanwhile, the other Kibaku-Nendo would secure that roof of the structure directly behind it itself, leaving Bass to hover over the building directly to the hospital's right. With this, they would be able to see any and all coming or going.

Naga is in center building, obviously, on its roof. As for me?

Currently, she was situated on the highest floor up before the roof on the western Administrative building, in what appeared to be someone's personal office. Her Byakugan revealed that the office she was in was just one out of a line of many, that stretched from one end of the floor all the way to the other side. The office led out to a corridor which ran parallel to the office, upon the other side of which was, unsurprisingly, more offices, which faced the hospital itself.

That last part is important, because it establishes that, from the perspective of someone in the center hospital, Adrianna is in the rear of the building. Taking the descriptions of all of our positions into account, a top-down view of the scenario would look like this:

SPOILER: Click to show

So... there's not one, but two giant buildings directly in-between me and your line-of-sight. The fact that you're flying doesn't really alleviate that problem. According to you, you're flying 40 meters in the air. According to me, the building Leo is on is 12 stories tall, which is 48 meters meters (as well, Naga stated that the hospital was taller than the other three buildings, which would mean that that's another large object blocking your line of sight to me, but I'm not going to account for that since he never clarified how tall it specifically was). Simply put, due to perspective and angles, there's no way you would be able to see over Naga and Leo's buildings to see me scaling the side of Leo's building, the side that is literally on the opposite side of the side that's facing your direction.

2. You, Guest and Leo (I'm mentioning Guest and Leo now to head-off any potential shenanigans later) have been focusing on Naga and his actions this whole time. Now, as I state that Adrianna had " seen the failed ANBU assault" that would imply that, chronologically, she had been scaling the building while Naga's ANBU were showing up and subsequently being blown up, give or take a few moments. Regardless, with your attention focused on Naga (or at least his direction, otherwise you wouldn't have seen him appear on the roof, obviously), and considering that you all lack doujutsu that would allow you to see in multiple directions simultaneously, even if one of you did have direct line-of-sight to Adrianna, the odds that any of you would suddenly notice her tiny form running up the side of a building in pitch darkness are extremely improbable, which leads me to my next point...

3. It's nighttime; and not just nighttime. According to Genbu, it's "starless night", apparently so dark that a squad of ten-foot long birds with humans on top of them are able to at least somewhat successfully infiltrate a village that has thousands of citizens in it and a plethora of guards who are on watch. If ten-food birds can travel some distance with decent concealment, than 5'8 Adrianna plastered to the side of a building should be all but invisible to eyes that aren't doujutsu and/or don't possess any sort of night-vision capabilities (a tracker fills neither rolls, if its description is any indication).

Any one of these points would in itself put strong doubt on the notion that you would be able to spot Adrianna. All three combined makes that possibility almost completely unlikely.

Regarding your bombs, I'd like to point out that the movement of your bombs is controlled specifically by you. The creations themselves have no mind or consciousness of their own, and you don't possess the ability to "see" through them, or sense basically anything through them. What that means is that, basically, your bombs can only travel where you have direct line of sight to, otherwise they could be bumping into shit, flying into a wall, hitting a window, or something else and you would have no idea. You're literally flying them blind. In regards to fucking Adrianna, therefore, it would behoove you to keep in mind that by my own statement, the lights on the floor she is on are out, surrounding her in "an oppressive blackness" in which "Only the X-Ray like powers of her Byakugan allowed her to see more than a few meters in any direction". If someone without a Byakugan can barely see a few meters in front of them within the building, that would mean that everything within the interior of the floor would basically be completely hidden from you fellas' sights. Good luck maneuvering your creations blindly through a labyrinth of offices, doors, and hallways.

As well, you described your creations as "Rather than linger, they sifted through the nearby area, dipping through the buildings and perching on irrelevant structures here and there."

Which is cool, but you didn't describe where they were (sans the spiders which blew up the ANBU, the and birds hovering 3 meters behind , specifically. T1 dictates that if that is the case, I therefore have the option of doing so for you, so long as I can actually see them. As I have Byakugan, I can see everything, and thus I've described them as all being far enough away from Adrianna that she couldn't be harmed by their explosions. Thus, no "aha, she said none were around her, but in reality one was up her ass!", please. Aside from that, you are of course able to position them anywhere you like.

That's my long and winding rant. Oh yeah, Leo has no radio and Guest is presumably more than 50 meters away from Genbu, which basically means that the three of you have zero radio contact. That's neither here nor there, but it's just something I noticed that might come up later. Thanks for baring with me.

[DEVIL—]

I don't even have to read this entire post to slam you with one simple fact.

1. I don't see any specifics on the hospital given, anywhere in Sunagakure (or the surrounding buildings). I didn't describe the setting in that detail because it isn't my village. Being forty meters in the air, yes, I would be able to see you climb up the building and into the window (considering you didn't say which side). So, your entire "the hospital would block your vision" is moot.

Your elaborate (and rather convenient) description of the neutral building doesn't change the fact that my character is roughly forty meters above the ceiling, which would easily give him a vantage point to see you trying to be spider-man and just climb into a window.

The only real problem, Exar, is your exceptional talent for focusing on the all details that don't matter.

---

You magically had your character move through a secured location, climb up a wall and enter a building when it was stated multiple times that the three of them were in a tri-formation which gave them the benefit of validly seeing nearly any and all coming in\out of the kill zone. Like, do you really think that you can just waltz in (directly beneath Leo) and not be seen?

Feel free to have a battle moderator step in, because I already know how this one is going to go.

PS: You don't need to try and lecture me about bombs that I've always stated controlling and guiding. The statement referring to them being perched on locations and constantly "patrolling" are to legitimize short periods of travel. Say, if your character had come in the right quadrant, I could validly state having one in the area opposed to simply making them appear (which seems to be a favorable method for some of ya'll).

Thanks for stating the obvious, though. <3

PSS: Furthermore, your overview of the bombs are wrong. Deidara has been shown to create bombs capable of acting of their own accord, such as the proximity mines which track you relentlessly after you've entered their range.

Just figured I'd drop that off on you real quick.

[Exar Kun]

Sept 19, 2012 4:01:30 GMT -8 DEVIL— said:

I don't even have to read this entire post to slam you with one simple fact.
[quote1. I don't see any specifics on the hospital given, anywhere in Sunagakure (or the surrounding buildings). I didn't describe the setting in that detail because it isn't my village.

That's not my problem. I don't need to leave the size of the buildings vague and undefined just because you neglected to define them yourself, dude.

PS: You don't need to try and lecture me about bombs that I've always stated controlling and guiding. The statement referring to them being perched on locations and constantly "patrolling" are to legitimize short periods of travel. Say, if your character had come in the right quadrant, I could validly state having one in the area opposed to simply making them appear (which seems to be a favorable method for some of ya'll).

That's perfectly fine. All I'm saying is this: as you haven't described specifically where they are on the battlefield, T1 gives me the right to do so on a basic level. So if I enter the thread and my Byakugan is on and I say "hmm, none of those bombs are near me", then they simply aren't- unless they're hidden from my view somehow. Beyond that, do whatever you'd like with them. I don't think we have an issue here.

PSS: Furthermore, your overview of the bombs are wrong. Deidara has been shown to create bombs capable of acting of their own accord, such as the proximity mines which track you relentlessly after you've entered their range.

You're not using the proximity mines, nor are they the ones I'm referring too, so this is irrelevant. My statements are in reference to the notion that you can somehow "chase" me through the building using the type of bomb you've already created thus far in the thread. You can't, unfortunately.

Being forty meters in the air, yes, I would be able to see you climb up the building and into the window (considering you didn't say which side).

Negative:

Currently, she was situated on the highest floor up before the roof on the western Administrative building, in what appeared to be someone's personal office. Her Byakugan revealed that the office she was in was just one out of a line of many, that stretched from one end of the floor all the way to the other side. The office led out to a corridor which ran parallel to the office, upon the other side of which was, unsurprisingly, more offices, which faced the hospital itself.

From there, it had been a simple matter to scale the side of the building and enter it's top floor through the window.

She glanced at the girl on the floor and held a finger up to her lips- the last thing she needed was for one of the civilians to give away her position, hence why shed had to manhandle the poor girl in the first place; she'd nearly jumped out of her skin when Adrianna had entered the room.

It's painfully obvious to anyone who isn't trying to weasel that the implication is that she scaled the side of the building and entered that room through the window. And let's take it a step further, because I know how difficult you like to be sometimes when it comes to technicalities. This is what I said while describing Adrianna's surroundings:

Currently, she was situated on the highest floor up before the roof on the western Administrative building, in what appeared to be someone's personal office. Her Byakugan revealed that the office she was in was just one out of a line of many, that stretched from one end of the floor all the way to the other side. The office led out to a corridor which ran parallel to the office, upon the other side of which was, unsurprisingly, more offices, which faced the hospital itself.

Why is that underlined portion important? Well, what's the definition of "revealed"?

1re·veal
transitive verb \ri-ˈvēl\
Definition of REVEAL

- to make (something secret or hidden) publicly or generally known <reveal a secret>

So if reveal means to "make something secret or hidden publicly or generally known", and it's stated that Adrianna's Byakugan "revealed" what everything outside of the office she is in looks like, then what that means is that she had no knowledge of what the outside of that office looked like until she activated her Byakugan. That directly spits in the face of your notion that she climbed up and entered the building from the side you want her to have climbed up on. If she had entered the building from the opposite side, than she would already have knowledge of the floor's layout, thus her Byakugan would not have "revealed" it to her.

You could handwave all of this away as a "minor detail", like you've done below, but that's simply incorrect. If you want to claim that I never described which side I entered from, you're going to have to prove up or shut up. I don't need to specifically state "Adrianna entered the building from this side through this window" when there's a plethora of context clues specifically laid out in my post that anyone with basic reading comprehension, yourself included, obviously has already noticed that explains which side of the building I entered from.

Your elaborate (and rather convenient) description of the neutral building doesn't change the fact that my character is roughly forty meters above the ceiling, which would easily give him a vantage point to see you trying to be spider-man and just climb into a window.

This is incorrect. From where you're positioned, you would need to be several hundred feet higher than the building I'm behind in order to see me behind it. lol, Try dropping a quarter behind your desk, than try see if you can see the quarter. You can't, even though you're taller than the desk is. Because of the angle, the desk blocks your line of sight.

As well, I could use your logic, and point out that you didn't say "I'm 40 meters above the ceiling". You said "I'm 40 meters in the air", which technically would mean that you're 40 meters above ground, and the building bellow you would therefore have to be less than 40 meters high.

But, I'm not the type of person who hangs on everything someone says. I knew what you were trying to imply, despite your failure to specifically note it.

You magically had your character move through a secured location, climb up a wall and enter a building when it was stated multiple times that the three of them were in a tri-formation which gave them the benefit of validly seeing nearly any and all coming in\out of the kill zone.

If you look at the map that I posted its extremely clear that there's a shitload of blindspots around the entire area. You're trying to mix OOC intentions with IC circumstances. ICly, it's dark as shit and none of you have vision-enhancing doujutsu or equipment, none of you are able to see everything in every direction, and the very buildings you're all standing on act as line-of-sight blockers. That''s the IC reality. Your OOC hopes that simply standing on rooftops is going to give you some sort of infallible security is not only unrealistic, but illogical. That you think that it being pitch-black outside and you have zero night-vision equipment on, and there is a battle that the three of you were just focusing on and and there are two giant buildings blocking your line-of-sight to me is a plethora of "minor details" when trying to determine whether you're able to notice me or not isn't just ludicrous, it's being intellectually dishonest.

Feel free to have a battle moderator step in, because I already know how this one is going to go.

Personally, I find the notion of BM's to be distasteful. You and I are both seemingly capable adults, and this is a game. I don't feel the need to let someone else do my dirty work for me, so no, I would prefer that you and I sort this out together without needing to involve a BM.

That being said, if you're not interested in having this discussion with me, or if it seems like we simply can't reach an agreement, than sure. I'll ask a BM to get involved as a last resort.

- - - -

And yes, Guest and Leo. The thread is on hold until this is dealt with.

[Superguest]

And yes, Guest and Leo. The thread is on hold until this is dealt with.

I am following said comment and not posting for the moment. If I should post please let me know now. I'd rather not miss my IIC simply because I was under the assumption that any post prior to either a BM judgment or Exar and Genbu working it out OOC would be deleted and ignored.

[Leonov]

Waiting.

[Exar Kun]

Making you miss your IIC because of this would be a pretty a dick move- I really don't think that would end up happening. You guys are pretty safe from that, I imagine.

[Naitome]

You're not going to miss your IIC based on waiting for this, No. That would be ludicrous. If things stall a bit, they stall a bit. If we can come to a sensible solution for this through having some intelligent conversation about it in a thread that's not cluttering the actual event, I'm all for it.


Luckily enough, the verdict has already been made: narutorplay.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sand&action=display&thread=15528

[DEVIL—]

Hotaru gave her verdict.

Again, having some long debate (which you seem keen on) isn't my interest. You took a metaphor I used way out of context. Saying a starless night somehow insinuates zero visibility is like me saying a player is dehydrated in two posts because they mentioned it was "scorching hot." There's a fine line between reaching for something not there, and going with the facts.

This is beyond the point that none of the buildings were described, and simply because the hospital was "taller" than the others doesn't help your case. How much taller was not determined by the Kazekage (the official GM of Sunagakure, who is in the thread) and it doesn't sit well with me how many people think they can just randomly manipulate the surroundings to benefit their post, and their post alone. That would be like me saying that the hospital of Sunagakure is no bigger than a standard house. Can I do that? No, I can't.

Why? Because that isn't how roleplaying works. Even if it was, unless the hospital is forty meters higher than the roof of the building I'm on (which, for the sake of roleplay, we'll say is identical to the one you described) it isn't going to hinder my line of sight.

There were no qualms with me seeing two ANBU jump from the roof of the hospital to the roof of the building you're occupying, which is the same distance required to see you climbing up the wall. You even clarified that the assault had worked, cementing the fact that I can see that amount of distance undisturbed.

My other problem is with how you can spend an entire paragraph describing the interior and infrastructure of the floor you're on, down to the flickering of the lights, yet you neglected to mention what side of the building you climbed; how you climbed or; or anything else that would reasonably facilitate your claim of me not seeing you. If that's how our roleplaying system works, it's feasible for me to say that my bombs are also inside of the building and you're dead either way because one just happened to be in the office you're in.

You can't be unnecessarily vague when it benefits you. Again, that isn't how it works. I didn't describe the scene because it doesn't make sense. We're in a village surrounded by lord knows how many buildings. Giving meter increments for all of them simply isn't feasible. If it's anyone's job to describe the three structures of a canonized settlement, it's the Kazekage's (again, which wasn't done). The rest of us were managing fine (even your leader), fighting without knowing the exact heights of the building and everything else because it really doesn't matter.

You aren't climbing up a house. You're climbing up a "office building." Common sense dictates that it's relatively high, and everyone in the thread seemed to be demonstrating that.

Another thing is how you just automatically placed Leon above you. Despite the fact that he didn't give his distinct location on the roof, he didn't come close to mentioning anything near an edge (which you would be at, in case you don't know how architect works. Windows means the edges of the building). what you should have done was enter, and then using your Byakugan, move throughout the floor you're on to place yourself beneath Leon. That would have legitimized everything.

Regardless, I'll be amending my post to fit Hotaru's verdict shortly.

[Exar Kun]

Sept 19, 2012 18:47:04 GMT -8 DEVIL— said:

Hotaru gave her verdict.

Again, having some long debate (which you seem keen on) isn't my interest. You took a metaphor I used way out of context. Saying a starless night somehow insinuates zero visibility is like me saying a player is dehydrated in two posts because they mentioned it was "scorching hot." There's a fine line between reaching for something not there, and going with the facts.

This is beyond the point that none of the buildings were described, and simply because the hospital was "taller" than the others doesn't help your case. How much taller was not determined by the Kazekage (the official GM of Sunagakure, who is in the thread) and it doesn't sit well with me how many people think they can just randomly manipulate the surroundings to benefit their post, and their post alone. That would be like me saying that the hospital of Sunagakure is no bigger than a standard house. Can I do that? No, I can't.

Why? Because that isn't how roleplaying works. Even if it was, unless the hospital is forty meters higher than the roof of the building I'm on (which, for the sake of roleplay, we'll say is identical to the one you described) it isn't going to hinder my line of sight.

There were no qualms with me seeing two ANBU jump from the roof of the hospital to the roof of the building you're occupying, which is the same distance required to see you climbing up the wall. You even clarified that the assault had worked, cementing the fact that I can see that amount of distance undisturbed.

My other problem is with how you can spend an entire paragraph describing the interior and infrastructure of the floor you're on, down to the flickering of the lights, yet you neglected to mention what side of the building you climbed; how you climbed or; or anything else that would reasonably facilitate your claim of me not seeing you. If that's how our roleplaying system works, it's feasible for me to say that my bombs are also inside of the building and you're dead either way because one just happened to be in the office you're in.

You can't be unnecessarily vague when it benefits you. Again, that isn't how it works. I didn't describe the scene because it doesn't make sense. We're in a village surrounded by lord knows how many buildings. Giving meter increments for all of them simply isn't feasible. If it's anyone's job to describe the three structures of a canonized settlement, it's the Kazekage's (again, which wasn't done). The rest of us were managing fine (even your leader), fighting without knowing the exact heights of the building and everything else because it really doesn't matter.

You aren't climbing up a house. You're climbing up a "office building." Common sense dictates that it's relatively high, and everyone in the thread seemed to be demonstrating that.

Another thing is how you just automatically placed Leon above you. Despite the fact that he didn't give his distinct location on the roof, he didn't come close to mentioning anything near an edge (which you would be at, in case you don't know how architect works. Windows means the edges of the building). what you should have done was enter, and then using your Byakugan, move throughout the floor you're on to place yourself beneath Leon. That would have legitimized everything.

Regardless, I'll be amending my post to fit Hotaru's verdict shortly.

I was expecting you to say something to the beat of "God damn Exar, you were absolutely right and I was absolutely wrong. Here, take my Wife."

Needless to say, I am now flaccid.

[King]

Don't worry.

Your new signature has been giving me wood since you put it up. I'm sorry I can't share your flaccid problems. >:[

[DEVIL—]

Figured I'd go ahead and return the favor to you, Exar, concerning your last post. There are a number of issues I need you to address before the thread can continue. I'll number them as I go along, though the digit assigned does not determine their rank of importance.

[/b][/color] The first thing I'm going to point out is the building in question, and your blatant abuse of its structure to fit your needs (because it clearly isn't neutral).

His trajectory noted, she loosed the arrows, the released tension built up within the string of her bow launching the 5 projectiles at breakneck speeds. The arrows traveled roughly less than an inch apart from each other, stabbing gracefully through the air for mere moments before embedding themselves deep into the ceiling 8 meters away, far enough away that she was completely safe from the attack. More pressingly for her opponent however, was the fact that they were also planted right in his path, indeed only a mere meter in front of him.

You're in a standard office building, going off of your previous post(s), and thusly in a relatively standard office (considering you said there were many other in the same hall on either side of the walk-space). Considering Exar is running in a diagonal line to the building in his north-west, how exactly do your arrows have eight meters of travel space?

Most standard offices aren't anywhere near that large (a small bedroom in a house is larger than most offices), so the office you being in randomly being eight meters (beyond eight meters, actually, considering you had to sprint several more to reach the window you entered) to facilitate your safety from your own attack (archery inside, lol) is nothing short of fantastic metagaming.

So, with that said, your arrows would need to travel through the office walls and then lodge themselves into the ceiling. However, they wouldn't even be able to punch through that (and as you, yourself, stated their piercing power isn't that impressive [with good reason] so it's highly unlikely that would even occur) and then lodge themselves in the ceiling. In that time, given that Leon is just sprinting, he'd be well beyond your arrows.

I mean, how do you know he wasn't going to turn and go to the hospital instead? Even with your "guess," you'd need to wait a little longer than a second or two to decide his trajectory. And by the time you did, he'd already be gone (ninja speed, ftw).

2. But, the abuse I speak of doesn't end there.

The ceiling was only about 8 inches thick. She didn't need to rely on the arrow's piercing capabilities.

How, exactly, do you get to determine the thickness of the ceiling? I mean, it wasn't like you said "The ceiling wasn't that thick, and an combination of explosions would've more than likely penetrated." Doing what your doing, Leon could simply say that you're wrong and the ceiling is actually five feet thick. Do you see why this kind of play isn't promoted? It's legitimately a whole knew level of faggotry, lol.

An eight inch ceiling doesn't make any sort've sense. I'm sorry.

3.

As soon as the tags detonated, Adrianna sprinted several meters across the room and agilely hopped out of the office through its window, focusing chakra through her feet to glue her to the vertical surface of the building. She was on the opposite side of the building that was facing the hospital, 40-meters of structure between the side she was on and the side facing the hospital concealing her from direct line-of-sight from either of the two Kibaku-Nendo assailants behind her.

Presuming you haven't killed yourself with your own explosive arrows (being as how you randomly making the office more than eight meters in size is beyond being far-fetched), you just left through the same window you entered... and thusly, being as how Bass is nearing ya'll, would still be able to see you.

If you want to get to a side that I'm not going to be able to see you, you need to do it through validated roleplay. You can't just say you do something and that it happened. You'll need to go through the office, into the hall, enter another office and then leave through it's window. This is beyond the fact that the explosions you just detonated probably set a decent part of the office you're in on fire, considering it's an office and more than likely filled with paper and other flammable materials.

I mean, that's actually common sense. You'll also need to worry about pieces of the ceiling collapsing now (namely in that office) from the five explosions you just detonated, presuming you aren't dead already.[/ul]

So, the tl;dr version is: you killed yourself. Naitome is my witness to the current condition of your post, not that I think you'd do anything. Thank you.[/justify][/blockquote][/blockquote]

[Naitome]

[Leonov]

My only words to say about this is:

Being in an eight meter room, you just set off five tags. Five explosions. First of all, I don't know if tags stack, because if they don't, why shoot five when you can shoot one? So under that premise, I'm insinuating that you shot five to amplify the size of the explosion. Instead of five, it'll be bigger. You're only eight meters away. 5 Tags will probably create a much bigger explosion.

Second of all, Max started sprinting diagonally on the roof. Ninja speed 2strong. Shinobi speeds can get fast. Very fast. Under that logic, the time it'd take for you to calculate my speed and direction, while knocking up the five arrows with five tags on them, then calculating where I'd go, then firing them where I would step with precision, then moving your hands together to do the seal, thus activating the tags, makes no sense. Max would be gone by then. He is, after all, sprinting on a roof.

So my argument is that you wouldn't have enough time, Maximilian would have ran off the roof with plenty of time. You set the tags off late, as Max succeeded in jumping buildings as you'd set them off, and due to them being five tags and you're eight meters away, you just got caught in the amplified explosive radius.

[Naitome]

None of that even matters. Exar doesn't have Exploding Seal Method Formation, the technique necessary to prematurely detonate an exploding tag. Meaning they're all timed, presumably from the moment they're fired. Meaning you have more than enough time to run, stop, moonwalk, do a handstand, and then backflip off of the roof, given the comparative speed of a ninja, and the slow winding down of the timed tag. Go watch the anime. It isn't instant. And it would need to be to even come close to STILL MISSING hitting you at all.

So carry on gents. Kthnx.

Edit: 8 inch ceiling. Lol.